Around the Block is a community news program from the Block by Block team at WPPM-LP 106.5 FM. On this program we explore issues in the Philadelphia region with voices from the community – with reports from our team of community journalists and live in-studio interviews.
This episode features a story about efforts preserve the character of Philadelphia’s historic buildings and neighborhoods from unchecked development, and an interview with Philadelphia City Council Education Chair Isaiah Thomas and Children First Policy Director Symbol Lai about pre-school pushout and the impact of only some Philadelphia schools offering Algebra I classes to eight grade students.
Sophia Mattia and Jennifer Robnett hosted this episode, and Ahmed Hassouna was our board operator.
Brad Linder is Radio News Managing Editor for WPPM. Peta Liu is Radio Operations Manager. And Allison Durham is WPPM’s Radio Program Director.
Episode Transcript
Jennifer Robnett
Good afternoon. You’re listening to Around the Block, a community news program from the Block by Block team at WPPM LP, Philadelphia 106.5 FM. On this show, we explore issues in the Philadelphia region with voices from the community, through original reports from our team of journalists and live interviews. I’m Jennifer Robnett,
Sophia Mattia
and I’m Sophia Matia. Coming up, we’ll be joined by Philadelphia City Council Education Committee Chair Isaiah Thomas and Children First Policy Director Symbol Lai for a conversation about two issues facing Philadelphia students and their families as they navigate the school system.
Jennifer Robnett
But first, Philadelphia is a historic city filled with historic buildings, but Philadelphia City Council is considering legislation that could alter Philadelphia’s ability to protect these buildings by changing the way historic preservation works in the city, a group of community members and organizations have been pushing back, and have formed a stop demolishing Philly coalition. Around the block reporter Winter Schneider brings us this story about what’s at stake.
Winter Schneider
Bill 251030 was first introduced in November 2025 by Council Member Mark Squilla, who represents neighborhoods bordering the Delaware River from Port Richmond all the way to Packer Street in South Philly. Even with significant pushback and multiple delays, Squilla plans to reintroduce the bill to City Council potentially this fall. Digging into this issue exposes a deep and familiar pattern for Philadelphians: the neglect and demolition of historically and culturally significant buildings, even when people come together to fight for their preservation. One example of this pattern is the demolition of the historic Saint Laurent’s Church in Fish Town in 2022, after years of advocacy on the part of its neighbors and preservation groups across the city,
Kevin Brett
it goes neglected, neglected, neglected until they’re kind of out of options.
Winter Schneider
Kevin Brett is the president of the volunteer organization Repoint Philadelphia, and one of the organizers behind the coalition against Squilla’s bill as it stands. And what’s there now?
Kevin Brett
Oh, they’re building probably eight luxury housing units. I think you know, so that’s just what Fish Town needs. Yeah.
Winter Schneider
Philadelphia’s historical commission was established in 1955, a time when cities across the country justified massive urban redevelopment projects at the expense of Black, Brown, poor, and working-class residents who were often displaced from their neighborhoods in the process, whose history was worth preserving, was and remains a deeply politicized issue, and the commission has wielded its power to different ends over time. But even with its flaws, current preservation law still fundamentally serves as a buffer against demolition.
Kevin Brett
Ultimately, the commission can pretty much approve anything with good reason, but it at least is sort of like a stopgap that makes us think about things before we just go ahead with a wrecking ball.
Winter Schneider
Let’s break down the law a little bit. Currently, even a nomination for historic designation protects a property by placing it under the commission’s jurisdiction, which means that a developer can’t do anything to the building while the commission considers the nomination. One thing the new bill would do is create a 30-day loophole before this jurisdiction kicks in, which would allow developers to get out of historic designation by irrevocably altering or demolishing the building first. Another thing the bill would do would be to disqualify the building from historic designation altogether if the owner even files a zoning application on the property.
Kevin Brett
The table is clearly tilted in one direction on a number of fronts.
Winter Schneider
Councilmember Squilla initially said that he sponsored the bill to address complaints with preservation law, not only from developers but also from individual property owners who felt like historic designation restricted what they could do with their property. Kevin says that there is a widespread agreement among preservation advocates about the need for practical solutions, but that this bill does not address that. We
Kevin Brett
do want preservation to be easier for people, particularly people who are lower income and maybe have fewer resources. We are still very big on this concept of what we call flexible districts. Some people call it tiered districts. The idea is that if you were to have a historic district, you would have varying levels of significance that would make it easier. Like if your building is on a sort of lower significance tier, then we’re not going to care about the paint. We’re not going to care about the windows. We just don’t want you to like knock the place down. Basically, that’s the type of. Legislation that we wish we were talking about.
Winter Schneider
Philly has been in a historic preservation boom over the last 10 years. Community groups have pushed for historic designation on properties throughout the city as a way to hold on to neighborhood history and identity. Kevin says Bill 251030 would put even more power in developers’ hands while taking agency away from the public.
Kevin Brett
You’re really like pulling the rug out from under these community actors, and just empowering sort of like economic interests or what what have you that don’t have as much skin in the game on a lived experience basis. Like they many times they don’t even live in the city.
Winter Schneider
While this might all just sound like a legal fight over buildings. It’s also fundamentally about who gets to live in and use them. Sierra Freeman and Paul Brown organize with the Brewery Town Sharswood Neighborhood Coalition, or BSNC, which is part of the coalition pushing back against Squilla’s bill.
Cierra Freeman
Historic preservation, whether cultural or architectural is definitely more than just the buildings themselves, the stories themselves. It’s the ability for folks to to continue to live here.
Paul Brown
Philadelphians will tell you we are losing our spaces, especially we see it for the kids. They don’t have enough third spaces to go to.
Winter Schneider
BSNC is organizing with other groups in the area under the Dope Neighborhood Project, an initiative to get Charleswood recognized and protected as a culturally historic district. This would protect sites like the Checker Club, once known as the Checker Cafe, a historic venue from the heyday of jazz in North Philly in the mid 20th century. The building is the last one standing on what used to be a whole strip of theaters and jazz clubs along Ridge Avenue, and is now owned by the Philadelphia Housing Authority.
Cierra Freeman
That’s a place that maybe it could get a marker, maybe it could be updated for community use. But like so many other buildings across Philadelphia, it’s just sitting here, and we’ll sit here as long as the powers that be deem it necessary to sit before it is sold to someone else.
Winter Schneider
The side of the Checker Club features a mural of the trailblazing black singer, actress, and comedian Pearl Bailey, who called the neighborhood home. Paul and Sierra shared with me that Pearl Bailey’s own house, which is already in the city’s register of historic places, was recently put up for sale on Zillow.
Paul Brown
There’s definitely people who would live there, but they don’t have the money to invest to build up the space to make it livable. So then you have to rely on the developers or corporations to take a stake in it, and then unfortunately you lose some autonomy in how you want to build out this space.
Winter Schneider
This example highlights the reality: the historic designation still cannot guarantee preservation, which also depends on investment of money and other resources. And still, the recognition and preservation of historic buildings is one tool in tracing a clear story that connects the history of the neighborhood to all the people living in it today.
Cierra Freeman
For me, and how it comes up in the work, is making sure that the history is as clear as possible, and as full as possible, as detailed as possible, to share that information with folks who have just moved here, so that that helps them to deepen their relationship with the neighborhood itself, as they build relationship with other community members, but also for the folks who have been here for a very long time, who we call MBSNC generational neighbors, it helps to reinforce the pride that they have in their neighborhood, the pride in the history of the neighborhood, which then lends itself to the pride that they have in themselves and their self-esteem as it’s connected to their surroundings and their relationship to each other.
Winter Schneider
Anyone interested in preserving Philly’s neighborhood histories can find out more about the initiative to kill Bill 251030 at stopdemalishingphilly.org, and you can check out the Brewerytown Charleswood Neighborhood Coalition’s work and get involved in the Dope Neighborhood Project by visiting BSNC Philly on Instagram. For Around the Block, I’m Winter Schneider.
Sophia Mattia
Philadelphia City Council is considering ways to make schools equitable for all Philadelphians. This month’s council education meeting held hearings on two issues. One looked at students of color and students with disabilities being excluded and expelled from preschools. The other explored the fact that not every eighth grader in the city has access to an Algebra One course. Councilman Isaiah Thomas is chair of City Council’s Education Committee, and he is joining us live in the studio. Thanks for being here.
Isaiah Thomas
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Sophia Mattia
We’re also joined by Cymbal Lai, policy director for Children First, a statewide advocacy organization for young people in Pennsylvania. Thanks for joining us.
Symbol Lai
Thank you.
Sophia Mattia
So our first question is: Preschool isn’t required by law in Pennsylvania. Some kids don’t start school until they’re five or six. But why is preschool so important for young students?
Isaiah Thomas
Well, I think that’s a great question. I think for the seat that I sit in, as a father, as a former teacher myself, and as somebody who’s the chair of the education committee on city council? Study after study has shown that pre-K puts young people in a position to be on a trajectory to be successful academically, and that’s what we want to see. We also understand that with the affordability crisis that we’re facing right now, a lot of parents are forced to work two, some even three jobs, and so we want young people to be able to have a quality academic experience while parents are putting themselves in a position and trying to earn a quality living for themselves and their families, so it’s something that I highly recommend. We encourage, we push, and we want to see it funded in innovative ways, both on the city and state level. It’d be nice if the feds put a little more skin in the game, but definitely on the city and state level to assure that we are offering these opportunities to as many families and as many students as possible.
Jennifer Robnett
Great. So this hearing addressed this phenomenon known as preschool pushout. Can one of you tell me exactly what is preschool pushout?
Symbol Lai
So the easiest way to understand preschool pushout is when students, babies, because they’re not even in K through 12, right? They’re suspended and expelled from their programs, and it’s something that we people don’t know about. When we say that kids that young are getting suspended and expelled, people are usually shocked, right? Because they’re they’re babies, right? And it’s something that parents, a lot of families that we’ve talked to and stuff, they don’t even realize that it’s happening until after the fact, like many years after the fact, and it’s something that flies under the radar because it’s very subtle. It’s like you know, getting calls all the time to pick up your kid, right? Or being told that you have to sit outside the program while your kid is in the program. And there’s little-I would say, they’re microaggressions that make families feel unwelcome, and so it’s a very silent, you know, silent under the radar type of suspension and expulsion. So we call it. Council member came up with the term preschool pushout, which is it rolls off the tongue a lot better than suspension expulsion.
Isaiah Thomas
And and I mean, for us on the on the council side, is this is this is our idea of expanding the work of the education committee, but it’s also putting us in a position to understand what’s actually going on. I think without the organizations and the advocates coming to city council saying this is a problem, we need you to explore it, we would have never known about the problem. And so we really wanted to have the conversation in the summertime because once you are informed about this issue, you recognize how important it is. It needs to stand alone. When school starts back up, you know it’s going to be a lot of education dialog. We’re still going to be in the midst of a facilities fight. We’re not a fan of this facilities issue. You just heard some of the transition that’s happening with young people going to Kensington High School and the impact that that’s going to have on folks, and then you just have your issues as it relates to traveling to and from school, extracurricular activities. the The pot is pretty big, and so we wanted to have this conversation in the summertime so we could highlight this problem. Not necessarily saying that we know the solution, but giving it it’s giving it an opportunity to have its own platform is really really important, and we’re going to continue to explore what do we do because I think for this hearing we did a great job of highlighting the problem, but I think we were very honest about the fact that we’re not sure how do we solve this, but we’re not going to quit. We’re going to continue to work with advocates, community-based leaders, and folks who brought this issue to try to collaborate to figure out how do we resolve it.
Sophia Mattia
Thank you. Can you explain why preschool pushout happens and how it affects the process for minority students to apply to preschool?
Symbol Lai
So I actually think Symbol will probably be better to explain the process just because they came to us, right? The organizations they’ve done the report, they’ve done the work, and they came to counsel and said, “This is the problem. Now, based on the content that I received in the hearing, you know, from what I, similar to what was said earlier, a lot of it is subtle. But then, when you listen to the providers, there are even cases where people don’t realize that that’s what they’re doing, right? And so, from our perspective, how do we get more resources to those providers so they can be able to offer services to anybody that walks in the door? But the the experts are the folks who are who came to us and told us this is what needs to be done. So we’re still gathering information. We’re still similar to your audience. We’re still learning about what’s going on. And I think it’s important for people to recognize that elected officials don’t have all the answers. The best elected officials are the elected officials who will listen to the experts, and the experts are often people who have lived experiences. And so that’s what we’re trying to do right now: is listen to people who have lived experiences and try to figure out how do we navigate this uncharted area and what resources can be provided and who. Advises those resources, so I’ll pass it
Symbol Lai
to you. Thank you. So part of the reason that it happens that we found is, you know, I would say if you a parent has a child that doesn’t fit like quote unquote normal categories that we expect young children to have, like they tend to be affected by the preschool push out a lot more. So you’re thinking about race and class, and in this case, disability, right? And what happens is, you know, providers they are already taxed and like strapped for resources. They might not necessarily like recognize some of the challenging behaviors or have like the tools or the resources to be able to handle it in the classroom. And so, you know, their default might be, and this is not just default. You know, just when you’re stressed, right? You’re like, how do I, you know, keep the rest of the students safe and keep the program going? So they might target, you know, and single out this one student and everything that is, you know, still a baby, still developing, right? And maybe needs more care resources, some reframe from the adults in the room about what’s happening for the child and stuff in order to kind of acclimate them to this situation, and it’s a problem because a lot of parents that we’ve talked to, they say that it’s not the first time that they get pushed out. Like this is the first time that you know it might be the start of a long line of pushouts that extend even into their K to 12 years, right? So you think about like the first time a child enters into any sort of social education space in pre K, and if they’re pushed out, right, that’s harm, right? And they’re not getting the resources that they need in order to kind of acclimate and get over the problem. So it’s kind of like we’re just you know absent any sort of like intervention from the adults in the room from the systems that are there to support the students. We’re just kind of kicking the can down the road and expecting the problem to be fixed at some point. So that’s why the problem happens. I can go on a little bit more into some of the systemic failures and the loopholes and everything. One of them, like I said, is the providers not having enough resources in the classroom, not having enough trainings, right, to identify problematic behaviors, and then to bring in the correct resources, the therapists, the specialists, the evaluations that are needed to kind of rectify the situation. And on the back end, you know when you when we looked at the systems that are in control, or you know in control of those resources at the state and the city level, and almost at the state level, it’s too fractured, right? So you know you get maybe zero to three and everything. They can they can get early intervention services in the city, and then beyond that, they go into they you know the Elwin, which is a state entity, gets you know has control over those those resources, right? And so you think about the families; they have to navigate their child is the same, the problems are the same, right? But they end up having to navigate multiple systems at the same time, right, and it becomes very confusing. Providers are confused, parents are confused, and that’s not even to layer on top of that. We have a whole, you know, you think about developmental delay. Elwin early intervention takes care of developmental delays. They don’t take care of behavioral mental health issues, right? So if you have a kid who, you know, is neurodivergent, right? Like they’re not going to be able to get like services. The services won’t fit that need, right? And then they have to parents and providers have to navigate a whole other behavioral health system that is equally fractured and may or not may or may not be talking to you know pre K folks around how to bring those resources they have into the classroom for the kid.
Jennifer Robnett
Absolutely, one of the things I think the the sort of elephant in the room is this issue where a child will be behaving in such a way that’s developmentally appropriate, but there’s an implicit bias, perhaps, with the the teacher, with the provider. You know, it’s it’s like interpreting a behavior in such a way that it’s you know it’s problematic when like it’s again it’s developmentally appropriate. Actually, that was something I saw and seemed to be. I
Isaiah Thomas
see that a lot in traditional K through 12 atmospheres as well too. I actually remember being in third grade and switching from private school to public school, and the work was too easy for me. And I I vividly remember my teacher trying to diagnose me as like ADHD, and and and put me on put me on medication, and my mom was like, absolutely not, like not happening at all. So, and then as when I transitioned into the space of being a teacher myself, in different schools, I would see the same thing as well too. So, I do think that the behavior of of black children. Especially black boys tends to be stereotyped, and it’s whether it’s subconsciously or systemic. Right, there is this easy path to overdiagnose black boys because of behavior in the classroom. And you know, my experience personally was I wasn’t being challenged academically, right? I had came from this one setting where math was here, and now I’m coming to this setting where it’s like I’ve done this all already before. So I guess I’m just supposed to sit here all day and do nothing. And I think a lot of that stigma is comes from a cultural difference. And I think one of the things that you’re seeing is a lot of intentionality around trying to find more black men and black people to be educators, but especially black men working in schools. The problem is, you get folks, especially in this economy, you know, the the pay for teachers is disrespectful, and so I think if we seen a lot more respect for the industry, we will see a change in demographic as it relates to who’s in the classroom, which in turn can impact how people are diagnosed or in a lot of cases overdiagnosed. So I know I kind of went a little tangent, but you triggered me a little bit when you said that because it took me back to a personal experience that I went through when I was transitioning from private school to public school.
Sophia Mattia
Absolutely. So, speaking about student experiences and even your own personal experience, how does a student getting expelled from preschool or even excluded from a mission in the first place affect their educational journey?
Isaiah Thomas
It’s traumatic, right? It’s traumatizing. Look at how quick I was able to just go back, right? Like, so that was a it’s a trigger. It try it’s an traumatic experience that I went through, and and my experience wasn’t. It didn’t conclude with it actually happening. So imagine, I can only imagine young people who who do go through those traumatic experiences. It not only is it is it something that sticks with you, but it subconsciously tells the child that they are supposed to be like this is the role I have, right? So, like a lot of times when young people go into classrooms, it’s like a play to them, right? And their subconscious is telling them this is my role and this is the character I am in the play. And when a young person is experiencing a lot of negative interactions early on, it subconsciously teaches them that I’m supposed to be the antagonist in the classroom, and that that’s my biggest concern as it relates to this. It starts in pre-K with pushout, but it’s a problem that exists consistently. I do a free camp every year, and we’re in the middle right now. Last week was week one. Next week is week two, and this is like my time to be back in that space that I love so much because I consider this my purpose and my calling, and one of the things I love about the camp is that young people get a lot of chances. Right, had a very interesting situation happen on Friday, and we’re still going to let that young person come back next week, despite some of the things that took place, because you know we recognize that we’ve been able to create a space where young people can make mistakes and not be demonized or criminalized for making mistakes. You know, and I said to the young man on Friday, you had a great four days, six hours, and 30 minutes, right? But a one one bad decision, right? A bad 30 minutes can ruin your life, and most people in jail didn’t say I want to go to jail when I wake up, but they had a bad 30 minutes, and that’s what we tried to teach the young people. Right, like you made a mistake, but this isn’t who you are, and I think that’s an important part of the work, and it’s always an honor for me to be able to implement that myself instead of just sitting in City Hall talking about it.
Sophia Mattia
What solutions do you propose to lessen preschool push out and improve early education in Philadelphia? Either of you?
Symbol Lai
For me, okay.
Symbol Lai
So,
Symbol Lai
what would I do? Well, first of all, I think all the stakeholders need to be in the same room and talking together, right? So you need to get the folks that are in charge of services for developmental delays in the room with the you know mental health professionals and stuff to talk about how they can deliver services in a seamless way, right? And they need to be talking to the school district and also PHL PreK at the city level to see how that can be implemented, you know, for for the city and city council, we have purview over you know PHL PreK in the school district. So at least in that space, how can you bring a seamless experience for parents experiencing the push out and stuff, and parents and providers who are experiencing the push out, right? How can you bring the like? How can you give them a seamless experience, and how can you make these systems easier to access for both parents and providers? I would also say that there needs to be a lot more resources allocated to providers to get that sort of training, so they can recognize challenging behaviors for what it is, and not necessarily play into some of the. Stereotypes that might be informing their, you know, what Councilmember Thomas shared as like, you know, unspoken bias of how they view a specific kid when they’re just having a bad day.
Isaiah Thomas
I agree. I couldn’t have said it any better. I would also just continue to think about like other dynamics that impact the household of the children as well, too, you know, we’re a very poor city, and when we’re talking about resources, right? Like the resources are definitely needed for the providers, 100% We we don’t disagree there, but the we we we got to think about the entire gamut. And so, one of the other problems that I felt like was presented in the hearing is just governs governance in general, like who has oversight. So I agree about the pre-K seats and the things that we’re responsible for, but I think that was like 350 seats out of 1000s of seats, and so the majority of the providers are moving in a way where it’s not really regulated. It’s not much oversight, and how do you address a systemic problem like this when the industry do you have no ability to regulate the industry in general? So, I’ve seen a number of different problems. Not necessarily sure how do you solve it. I can say we need more governance, but what does that look like? Who’s responsible? What does that board consist of? I can say we need more resources, but who provides it? Is it the city? Is it the state? Where does the revenue come from? So, saying what needs to be done is, you know, we can communicate and articulate that. Actualizing it and executing it is a whole nother conversation.
Symbol Lai
I will also say another thing that we can start with, and this is outside of figuring out where this sits and everything. But like one of the reasons that pre-K pushout continues to be, you know, fly under the radar is that nobody’s actually tracking it, right? There’s no sort of place where parents can report like, hey, this weird thing happened to me, right? I don’t know what’s happening and everything. I just don’t feel good about it. Where can I get resource? And there’s nobody. There’s no oversight, right? Part of the reason is because the system is fractured, right? But if you know, the first way to kind of start solving a problem is to put your arms around it and figure out how often it’s happening, and like getting rid of the bad actors or supporting the bad actors and bringing people up to speed and stuff. And there’s no right now. It’s such a diffuse problem that you know it’s it’s like the council member says like where do we even start?
Jennifer Robnett
We start with naming the problem, which is what these hearings did. So, it’s good,
Isaiah Thomas
and the advocates get all the credit for that, right? Had it not been, had it not been for community organizations coming to council, advocating for the hearing, advocating for this conversation, advocating for the children and the families who are suffering from these decisions, honestly, we wouldn’t have known that it was a problem as bad as it is. So, all credit goes to the organizations.
Jennifer Robnett
I’d like to ask a question about alternative pre-K programs, and I know that there are programs like there’s unschooling, and a lot of that. I have I have friends that have kids in unschooling programs, and a lot of that takes place outside, because like the recognition there is that sometimes like the classroom environment is the problem itself. As a kid can’t, like particularly like a neurodivergent kid can’t deal with such a structured sort of confined space. So, is there any role that, like, an alternative pre-K program or like an unschooling type curriculum could play as far as the solution to preschool push out?
Isaiah Thomas
Yeah, I think that’s a great question. And just as a parent with lived experience, I find that those access to that is for more affluential people, right? Like that’s not something that working people, poor people have access to. We do have some Montessori schools in in the city that can offer some of those alternatives, but they are extremely expensive. So I don’t know how a working, you know, living check to check, trying to take care of my family. I don’t know how they put them. It’s like probably got to hit the lottery. I’m not saying that the school doesn’t exist at all in city, but I would bet is no it nowhere near meets the need of the number of people who actually require that support or those resources. So I think that when you have money, you can you you definitely can do that. You’ll find somewhere, and somebody will take your child. Unfortunately, we’re the second poorest big city in the entire country, and most folks don’t have the resources to be able to provide their child the services that you’re discussing. So I don’t I don’t know how we expect people to do that for themselves. I definitely think government should be stepping up, stepping in, and subsidizing.
Jennifer Robnett
Okay, so the other hearing was that that took place earlier this month was on algebra, specifically the lack of access for eighth graders. Why do children need to take algebra one? Why is it so important?
Symbol Lai
So, I mean, algebra is foundational. It’s foundational math, right? And it opens a lot of gateways to like good-paying, stable careers and jobs. If you want to think about Philadelphia, what a lot of our growing industries are centered around, you know, there’s education with the universities. There’s pharmaceuticals, you know, that are local. Like kids in Philly need algebra if they want to get any sort of STEM-based career, and if they want entry into local economies and industries that are right here on their doorstep. So it’s really, you know, it’s crucial that Philly students have access to algebra because it’s an equity issue.
Isaiah Thomas
100% agree, and I mean, just as a parent, I went through this myself, and I said that in a hearing. I didn’t realize how limited the access to algebra was, and I also didn’t realize it was a part of the criteria for some of our special admission schools. So this issue is much simpler, right? Teach the kids algebra, take it out of all special admission schools requirement until everybody has access to it. Right, that’s the main thing. It’s not fear. And when we recognize that things aren’t fair, let’s just do something about it. Let’s just fix it. And when you keep things in that we know and agree that they aren’t fear, that’s when people feel like systemically we’re against them. And so after that hearing, I think one of the most interesting things throughout the course of the summer, as I’ve been walking around talking to people, the hearing actually caught more attention than I probably thought it did. And people are telling me their algebra stories, right? So you know, going to basketball event, y’all seen that algebra hearing you had, and then they’ll tell me their story, either what they went through or what their children went through, and so I think for me is I didn’t realize that it was as big of an issue as it is until I went through it as a parent, and then the hearing again. Appreciate the advocacy from the organizations asking and requesting for the hearing, but this one is way cleaner, much more cut and dry. You know, this is what we need to do. Every kid should have access to algebra. No school should have it as a requirement until everybody has an opportunity. And of course, like most issues, young people of color are the ones who are at a disadvantage when it comes to accessing algebra. And so it’s unfortunate, but this is one that we actually know the solution, and we can do something about. And I appreciate the school district for already saying we recognize this problem, and these are some of the things that we’re going to do to address it. They still have a little more work to do. We’re not happy, but we do appreciate them acknowledging the problem and trying to begin to to to address the issue.
Sophia Mattia
Yeah, thank you. Can you talk a little bit about why it’s not offered in schools originally?
Isaiah Thomas
I mean, I can, but no one wants to hear it. It’s not. It’s no. It’s no credible reason. There’s no, you know. They’ll say that it’s a lack of certified teachers. They’ll talk about the importance of differentiating instruction and how they still offer parallel content, but none of that none of that justifies it. When you look at the fact that over 50% of the young people who have access to it are not people of color, right? Like these are systemic problems that, whether intentional or not, needs to be undone right away. So, it’s no excuse. I mean, you probably have a better answer for that than I mean.
Symbol Lai
I will also say that our school district is criminally underfunded, right? So we’re still short maybe a little less than $1 billion underfunded, and so that kind of trickles down into the resources that you do and don’t see in the school district in each individual school. I will say that there’s a lot of decision points in between where the money comes from and how it’s implemented that may you know take attention away from algebra or other things that are in you know impact a student’s education. But I don’t, you know, the forest is we’re a billion dollars short, you know. So that does take limit the types of opportunities that Philly students see.
Isaiah Thomas
I 100% agree about the funded issue, but the the one thing that we have to, I would be more, I would lean more on funding being a problem if the percentage of students who had access to algebra was reflective of the population of the city. Absolutely, right. So if the majority of the city was white and the majority of the students who had access to algebra was white, then I would lean more on it being a funding problem. It is a funding problem, but why is it that a large percentage of the students who have access to algebra doesn’t reflect the percentage of the population? And I think that’s when people begin to ask questions about intentionality.
Symbol Lai
Absolutely, I will say just to kind of echo Councilmember Thomas’s point. One of the research findings that we found in you know through our report around algebra or early research, was that the map when you geographically map the schools that don’t have access to algebra, it just graphs onto all the you know the race and poverty you know like maps that city council sees for affordable housing and anything else that has to do with socio economic. Race in the city.
Jennifer Robnett
Now, I heard during the hearing you mentioned symbol. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s like schools and libraries. They offer tutoring services. They offer like something that reinforces like a an education. Yeah, that part of a solution
Symbol Lai
potentially. The so out of school time is basically after school and summer programming for you know that out of school time is like nonprofit government jargon. Most normal people understand it as like after school care or summer jobs or summer programs for kids. Yes, that can support you know I think I reference it in in the algebra hearing, so it can really, really put your arms in, you know, help students succeed and come up to speed, and you know, improve academically and their social, you know, in social skills and stuff through, you know, out of school programs and stuff. In the pre-K space, you know, they might be young for that, right? And there are certainly pre-K providers who are also out-of-school time providers and stuff, but you know the problem is that there’s no resources. the The problem isn’t being identified. The students’ needs aren’t getting met. You know, the problem’s still there, right? You’re still going to have to train out-of-school time providers to be able to navigate and recognize the problem.
Sophia Mattia
Thank you. There is one last question I’d like to ask. So we talked a lot about like prevention and what the solutions are to prevent this issue from happening. But what resources are there for kids who have been affected by pushout, like currently, like maybe not now because it’s summertime, but in the fall when they go to preschool, if their pushout is happening to them, what resources are there for kids and parents right now?
Isaiah Thomas
I mean, I I didn’t hear many resources available for people who are victims of push out, and I think that was why the issue was brought to us, right? And I think it was also interesting for people to not even realize they’re they’re being pushed out. So I’m not quite sure. So if they’re a part of one of the 300 or so pre-K programs, then there are some type of consequences because it’s under that umbrella. But again, the mass majority of our programs in the city are not under; they’re not governed through that that that that umbrella. So I don’t. We have to do better to provide resources for parents who who have been victims of their child being pushed out. But right now, we can honestly say there’s no direct pipeline to my child was pushed out. These are resources and services that can help you get through that traumatic experience. We’re not there yet, but I think part of naming the problem, like we said earlier, puts us in a position where we can begin to explore what needs to be done to address it. Yeah, there
Symbol Lai
are some you know early programs. I think PHL PreK has a family navigator program and stuff that where parents may be able to kind of get some headway into like where to go next and stuff, and that can definitely be bolstered and expanded so that they’re focusing specifically. You know, they focus more specifically on like incidents of pre-K push out. I will also say, children first. We are continuing to examine the problem. I believe we’ll be holding more focus groups and to talk to parents about their experiences. The tricky thing again about this problem is that like people don’t realize that they’re being pushed out until years after the fact. Like their kids might be grown and graduated and working, you know, before they go back, and they’re like, “That was really, really weird. Why did it have to be so hard? You know, why did it start in pre-K and last until you know they graduated? You know, high school.
Sophia Mattia
Thank you so much, Councilman Thomas and Cymbal Live for being here.
Isaiah Thomas
Thank you for having us.
Symbol Lai
Thank you.
Jennifer Robnett
Brad Linder is radio news managing editor for WPPM, Peter Liu is radio operations manager, and Allison Durham is WPPM’s radio program director. I’m Jennifer Robnett,
Sophia Mattia
and I’m Sophia Matia. And thanks to Ahmed Hisuna, who is our board operator for this episode.
Jennifer Robnett
Around the Block, we’ll be back next month with another episode featuring more stories and conversation from our team of Philadelphia area community journalists, and you can find more episodes of Around the Block and Block by Block on PhillyCAM SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you find your podcasts. Thanks for listening.